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    February 29, 2008

    Obama's Christian case for gays

    Posted by: Chris

    Obamacross A must-read from Andrew Sullivan today on why gay voters need to coalesce around Barack Obama, highlighting the Illinois senator's reference to his faith in Beaumont, Texas, yesterday to explain his support for gay rights.

    Money quote, as Andrew would say:

    The current Washington set-up is broken. If you haven't seen that these past few years, you have blinders on. It doesn't deliver - and won't, without a president who actually believes that gay people deserve full equality. Yes, it's partly generational - Obama sees gay people in a way Clinton never will, as a function of her age and background.

    But it's also, it seems to me, an indication that he really is a Christian. One day, it will seem as obvious that Christians should support gay equality as it is now obvious that they should have opposed segregation. What Obama does for gay people in a religious context is just as important as what he does for us in a political one. Both are vital - because it is the abuse of religion that is at the core of the hostility to gay dignity.



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    1. Out of Eygpt on Feb 29, 2008 6:20:16 PM:

      Brave New World--My Kingdom Come, My Will be done on Earth as it is in My World centered around ME, the Big 'I' Almighty.

      From one day to the next in 1973 homosexuality went from being a mental disorder to normal behavior. Thanks to the marketing of evil, people struggling with unwanted same sex attraction are no longer able to easily find help.
      Gay activists, brilliant but ruthless, carefully developed a strategy to convince the world that homosexuality is normal....Normal, the best revenge for all the years of rejection.( Yet Kirk/Madsen, the authors of Evil, are still unhappy people today after all this, say that gay sex is boring, and they admit homosexuality in not genetic.)
      Rejection of aberrant sexual behavior that is not life-giving.In our tolerant society it is no longer polite to speak out against the party line defining homosexuality as equal in all respects to heterosexuality.
      Who cares really what is done in private but that it be forced upon others who could really care less about homosexuals as long as it doesn't effect them or their loved ones. And, worse denying those seeking help the help they desire!!
      As I read on this blog I realize that I am considered to be a narrow-minded conservative bigot simply because I say NO! What is being propagated here is lies and deception, that is all.
      At one time I was very liberal, coming from an extremely liberal family, but after much pain and heartache I was able to see the fallacy in my former anything-goes line of thinking. The truth is written on each person's heart, but in a group of sheep where everyone is jumping off the cliff it appears logical to jump off too.
      Yes, getting help and getting to the root causes of homosexuality is painful but worth it. It is the courageous thing to do. Throwing stones at people like myself, or simply ignoring the fact that homosexuality is nothing more than a symptom of an underlying cause, an incomplete gender attachment, is cowardly and childish.
      The truth is out there, people have dedicated their lives seeking to help those who want to be helped with this disorder.But the gay community, nothing more than very wounded people w/ tons of money, has become a Goliath. Broken free from the Good Little Boy role, they have become Outlaws, determined to turn the world upside down, where everyone agrees wholeheartedly that the blue sky is green.
      I take comfort in knowing that Goliath was taken out w/ 5 little stones, by a little boy.
      It is very frightening to me to think that surely in my lifetime homosexuals will be able to marry as anyone else can. So indifferent and correct are we that no one dare stand up and say Hey, wait a minute, these people need help not enabling which is exactly what is going on now.
      Families are falling apart, dads are absent and so increases homosexuality. The farther we get from God's design the sicker we get. Take issue with God not me---yes, I do see the Bible as the Ultimate Truth---God's word, instructions for living a healthy happy life.

      It is difficult to Face the Truth, Step out from behind the Screen in Oz, take the focus off of the political scene, convenient past-time to ignore the REAL ISSUES---the deep wounding in each homosexual resulting from unmet childhood needs.

      My heart breaks as I look around and see a society fragmenting as we move further and further away from God. Brilliant people espousing pure baloney and peddling it to other innocent by-standers who are sure they know what they are talking about because of this or that degree---intellectual prowess has NOTHING at all to do with emotional and spiritual intelligence.

    1. North Dallas Thirty on Feb 29, 2008 7:09:18 PM:


      Out of Egypt, there needs to be some clarification here.

      Who cares really what is done in private but that it be forced upon others who could really care less about homosexuals as long as it doesn't effect them or their loved ones.

      If you can agree that what is done in private between consenting adults is not really anyone else's concern, that is a very good start.

      Thanks to the marketing of evil, people struggling with unwanted same sex attraction are no longer able to easily find help.

      I find that very difficult to believe, inasmuch as my parents have had zero trouble finding NARTH, Exodus International, and innumerable other books, CDs, and periodical literature with which to flood my mailbox.

      Frankly, I have no objections to the existence of these places, and I would fully recommend to any person who is so miserable because of their same-sex attractions that they cannot function that they should at least inquire of these organizations.

      But the simple fact of the matter is that not everyone is miserable because of them. In order to change, you must first want to change, and a goodly number of us see no reason to do so.

      Throwing stones at people like myself, or simply ignoring the fact that homosexuality is nothing more than a symptom of an underlying cause, an incomplete gender attachment, is cowardly and childish.

      What confuses the issue is that there ARE, in my opinion, factors in childhood that can turn one to homosexuality. However, that does not mean that those factors existed, or even applied, to all gay people. Bluntly put, you and yours turned me off completely to your way of doing business when you accused my parents of being unfit and distant, when you in fact had no proof of that other than the fact that I was gay.

      The reality is far, far different. And in my mind, the greatest sin you have committed against me and my parents is convincing them that my being gay is because of something they did, of their being horrible parents -- which I see as no different than the bad old days when a child who was deformed, disfigured, or died unexplainably was considered proof of their parents' hideous sins.

      It is very frightening to me to think that surely in my lifetime homosexuals will be able to marry as anyone else can.

      Interestingly enough, I'm not sure that's a good idea either -- not because there is anything inherently bad about homosexuality, but because the issues and concerns of homosexual and heterosexual couples are different.

      If you can agree that homosexual couples should be allowed some degree of benefit and protection, then we may have a breakthrough point. But if you insist on all-or-nothing, your obstinancy will leave you at "nothing", just as that obstinancy of gay leftists has left THEM at "nothing".

      Take issue with God not me

      Um, no, because I have a relationship with God too, and He has yet to tell me how awful I am simply by virtue of being gay.

      What He does tell me is that being gay is no excuse for hating Him, for being antireligious, for being anti-family, for being promiscuous, and for using drugs; He expects me to behave in the same way and follow the same commandments as He expects of heterosexuals. You would be right if you are saying that far too many gays are using homosexuality as an excuse for antisocial and immoral behavior, but you are extremely off to say that homosexuality by itself constitutes immorality. That is on the order of saying all heterosexual sex is adultery because some heterosexuals are adulterous.

      God's ways and means are not always ours, Out of Egypt. All I would ask is that you consider the possibility that God allows homosexuality, not to give you something to condemn, but to give you something by which you may understand that even what seems scary and foreign to you is still His handiwork and being worked for good to those who love Him.

    1. Out of Eygpt on Feb 29, 2008 11:25:30 PM:

      North Dallas Thirty
      Thank you so much for your very respectful response to my entry.In spite of our obvious differences you plainly took the time to review my concerns. I am in fact quite aware of the different organisations you were kind enough to site as well as of the issues underlying homosexuality. Someone I love dearly is actively gay, happily so and has been for many years now. Honestly I would rather that weren't the case but such is life n'est-ce pas?
      Please don't even think for one second that I was criticizing your parents in the least, let Narth explain their role if any in the development of homosexuality. I am quite tired but wanted to make sure I thanked you for your impressive response. The other evening someone blasted me w/ profanity that really upset me.
      I have noticed your thoughtful entries and will continue to follow them. Good Evening to you.

    1. Strict Scrutiny on Mar 1, 2008 1:48:57 AM:


      You are a predator. You're a predator because you take advantage of the fear, the insecurity, and the vulnerability of young gay men and women and offer them fairytale "cures" instead of compassion and acceptance. This is shameful.

      Do you have any idea how many young gay men and women have committed suicide because being gay is still not acceptable in many parts of this country? Do you know how many young adults have been kicked out of the house by their parents because they are gay? Part of the reason "gay" is still so taboo is because people like you advance theories that homosexuality is not normal -- that it's more like a disease in need of a cure. Actually, it's not a disease. Cancer is a disease. Being gay is a variation in the human condition -- like being left-handed instead of right handed. There is no moral dimension to it. You do us all a disservice by saying otherwise. Thank God almighty the educated medical professionals of our country figured that out way back in 1973.

      So yes, you are not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. People like you who perpetuate phony theories about "attachment disorder" and make the lives of gay people harder, not easier. So go away and take your lies and witchcraft with you.

      You people are losing this fight... and again, thank God for that. It is my fervent hope and prayer that future generations of people will look back on these years and say, "What was the big deal with being gay?"

    1. david on Mar 1, 2008 12:17:39 PM:

      What exactly does "actively gay" mean?

    1. Chris on Mar 1, 2008 2:59:54 PM:

      Out of Egypt: Enough with the proselytizing. It's outside the scope of this blog and not responsive to the blog posts you're supposedly responding to. If you keep it up, I'm going to ban you from the comments.

    1. Out of Eygpt on Mar 1, 2008 7:37:24 PM:

      Thank you, I will respect your wishes

    1. Kary on Mar 1, 2008 10:19:52 PM:

      Out of Eygpt(sic) just illustrates Sam Harris's point that all religion is evil. Look what it's done to Little Eygpt (sic). I am an Obama supporter for many reasons. And he is, by far, the best candidate for gay people. Did you see that Pastor John Hagee (holy crap) endorsed McCain today, and McCain (pathetically) thanked him. GO OBAMA!

    1. North Dallas Thirty on Mar 2, 2008 11:06:18 PM:

      And Kary just illustrates the point of the religious right that homosexuality is antithetical to religious belief and that gay people are hostile towards religion.

      It would be interesting to see peoples' reactions when they find out that Obama is lecturing people about not being "Christian" while his supporters are namecalling and blasting Christians as evil and awful "predators" who practice "witchcraft" and cheering about how religious people need to "lose".

      Meanwhile, Chris, it hardly seems necessary to threaten a person with a ban when it's already been demonstrated that one can reach them when communicating with the proper degree of respect for their views and firmness of one's own.

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