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    April 23, 2008

    Gay Dutch tilting rightward

    Posted by: Chris

    Nova My pal Dan over at Gay Patriot has an interesting post about the rightward tilt of gays in liberal Holland. Apparently a conservative party called Proud of the Netherlands scored best among gays in a poll by the TV program Nova. The trend dates back at least to Pim Fortuyn, an openly gay politician there who launched his own nationalist party and was competing to be prime minister before being murdered by a radical animal rights activist.

    Dan's take is that Dutch gays are flocking rightward because of the rising cultural and physical threat they perceive from intolerant Muslim immigrants, second generation as much if not more than the first:

    It seems that left-wing politicians in Europe are having trouble balancing the competing interests of the various “minority” (read: “victims” in coalition of oppressed) groups to whom they feel they must appeal and whom they fear offending.

    It seems the Dutch left is having trouble maintaining that precarious balance. I wonder if the failure of leading Democrats (as well as gay organizations) to recognize how Islamofascism represents the greatest threat to gays around the world today will lead to a gay exodus from that pandering party.

    One sign of this happening in the number of gay Democrats contemplating a vote for John McCain this fall.

    He's got a point. Left and center-left parties in Holland for too long dismissed anti-immigration nationalism as prejudice -- only one motivation for some -- while also struggling to deal with the threat from Islam and conservative reaction to it to the country's famous cultural tolerance.

    As I asked before after my own firsthand brush with hate in Amsterdam, how do you tolerate everything while not tolerating intolerance? That was the very subject of an episode of Nova on which I was interviewed, along with the left-leaning mayor of Amsterdam.

    At the same time, there is a world of difference between Dutch conservatives and those back home in the States. Over there, most conservatives support the full panoply of gay rights, including marriage, and promise to actively combat rising intolerance of gays and others among Muslims. McCain and the GOP, of course, oppose any affirmative legal protection for gays and too often cave in to the their xenophobic wing.

    The unfortunate irony for Republicans is that they claim the mantle of opposition to Islamists worldwide, even while depending upon conservative Christians who would impose their own (much milder) religious intolerance at home on gay Americans. Of course gay Republicans don't buy into that double standard and align with other moderates in the party looking to change things -- a difference also lost on most gay observers.



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    1. Scott on Apr 23, 2008 12:55:05 PM:

      I've given money to anti-immigrant groups in Holland and England. Muslims should stay in muslim-populated countries until they learn how to be civilized. Not only are muslims a threat because of their violent and authoritarian behavior they also breed like rabbits which threatens the environment because of over-population.

      I am glad gay Europeans are waking up to the grave danger they face because of muslims. Those people have got to be stopped.

      For those that want to attack me, having religious beliefs are like being a republican or democrat, liking balloons or the electric slide. They are NOT innate human qualities. Sexuality, gender, and ethnicity are innate human qualities.

    1. Chris on Apr 23, 2008 2:17:34 PM:

      Xenophobia like Scott's is what gives nationalist parties their ugly side. We've seen pernicious stereotypes about breeding behavior, etc., about Irish Catholics, Mexicans and other Latin Americans, and practically any other fill-in-the-blank immigrant group.

      Muslims shouldn't stay in "Muslim-populated countries" anymore than Anglos should stay in "Anglo-populated countries" or black people should stay in "African-populated countries."

      Responsible immigration policy works to assimilate new arrivals into the cultural and legal expectations of their new country. And it brokers no tolerance for intolerance, whether against gays or Islam or any other group.

    1. Scott on Apr 23, 2008 8:16:20 PM:

      Over-population concerns are real. According to many scientists studying it the world has already reached its peak at recovering from human interference. Severe weather can be caused by over population. The real racists are those that continue to breed without any concern for anything else but themselves. Every country in the world should address runaway population growth.


    1. tristram on Apr 23, 2008 10:08:17 PM:

      We'll learn how 'much milder' the right's religious intolerance is if McCain is elected (better than 60/40 in his favor right now, I'd say) and keeps his promise to let the fundies vet his nominees for federal judgeships. A couple of McCain appointees on the Supreme Court and Scalia could well realize his dream of overturning 'Lawrence v. Texas' and giving the Republican Party in Texas (and a good number of other states) the opportunity to implement their beloved anti-(homosexual)sodomy laws. Then maybe the 'pandering party' and its gay supporters won't look so pathetic.

    1. Chris on Apr 23, 2008 11:28:33 PM:

      Scott, your argument is specious on its face. If overpopulation is really your concern, then we should encourage the immigration of Muslims to (wealthier) countries where the cultural pressure is to have fewer children. Even if you don't buy that, they'll have however many kids no matter where they live; the effect on total global population is zilch.

    1. Scott on Apr 24, 2008 1:04:33 AM:

      If they stay in muslim-populated countries eventually overpopulation concerns will force the government to react. Muslims would listen to their muslim-led government more than a non-muslim-led government. Muslims regard their religion particularly sharia law as their guide to life. If they live in a non-muslim country whatever laws that country has is way down on the list of things they believe they should follow.

      Islam means submission. Jihad means my struggle. Mein Kampf means my struggle. Muslim countries allied themselves with Nazi Germany and set up death camps. Their main prophet Muhammed was a war leader. It should be no surprise why muslims have incited violence for 1,400 years (and counting) wherever they live. We are dealing with extremely dangerous people.

    1. Chester on Apr 26, 2008 10:48:41 AM:

      Scott, I recommend David Neiwert's site, Orcinus, to help you sort through some of the eliminationist rhetoric and hysteria behind your remarks.

    1. Jim in Virginia on Apr 28, 2008 11:07:05 PM:

      Thanks for recognizing the efforts of gay Republicans to change the GOP from within. I look forward to the day when gay people feel free to choose between the parties based on positions other than gay rights. We desperately need real friends in both parties as evinced by your other postings. Thanks again.

    1. Scott on May 6, 2008 4:20:39 AM:

      In March, muslims went nuts over a film about islam that did not paint it in a good light. I haven't been watching the news that much in the last several months so this went right by me.


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